Q&A Gillian Pugh

The full text of an interview that featured in summary form in the magazine.

Gillian Pugh

Teaching: the GTC magazine, summer 2008

Dame Gillian has been one of the most significant figures in early childhood education for many years. Currently, she chairs the advisory committee of the Primary Review, which brings together a distinguished group of individuals from education and children’s services to support the review team directed by Professor Robin Alexander of Cambridge University.

We asked her to sum up decades of experience for Teaching: the GTC magazine.

Will the Primary Review be as effective in setting a new direction for the sector as the Plowden report?

The Plowden report was commissioned by government at a time of optimism and belief in the power of schools, and particularly primary schools, to make a difference to society. There was little central control of education, no National Curriculum, no Primary Strategy, no standard assessment tasks (Sats).   

The Primary Review is an independent review, with a broader remit,  taking place at a time of rather less optimism. It is asking broader questions than Plowden – about the lives and needs of children and the condition of childhood today, about the condition of the society and world in which today’s children are growing up, as well as about the present state and future prospects of primary education itself – purposes and values, learning and teaching, curriculum and assessment, quality and standards and so on. 

By taking this very broad approach, and by drawing on 30 comprehensive surveys of published evidence specially commissioned from the Review’s 70 research consultants – as well as over 550 submissions and over 200 regional and national meetings with teachers, children, parents, community leaders, national stakeholders and others – Robin Alexander and his team will be in a very strong position to make an authoritative assessment of primary education today, and to make recommendations about how it could be improved. I know from the huge interest that there has been in the interim reports that the final report, drawing on all these strands of evidence, will have a considerable impact.

What impact do you hope the Review will have on the political environment for education?

The Primary Review is already beginning to change the discourse about primary education, in looking at the broader context of children’s lives and childhood today – as was evident in the recent conference that the GTC organised with the Primary Review and the Good Childhood Enquiry. By taking this broad approach, and by listening to the views of children and parents, as well as teachers and trainers, I believe we will create an environment in which all of those involved in education, as well as politicians, will be able to rethink the role and purpose of primary education.

If there were one thing you could change about primary education in England, what would it be?

I would extend the Early Years Foundation Stage up to the end of year 1, with a strong focus on active play-based learning, balancing child-initiated and adult-initiated activities and with an emphasis on social and emotional development, oracy and creativity. This would respond more appropriately to how young children learn, ease the difficulties for summer born children and bring us into line with most other countries in the world.

Which is more important for the education service right now – change or stability?

There has been a huge amount of change over recent years, both within the education system and, with Every Child Matters and the Children’s Plan, across children’s services more generally. The ECM agenda has been broadly welcomed, but the blizzard of new initiatives and strategies and pilot projects is proving exhausting as well as confusing for many practitioners. So some stability would be welcome, and would enable all concerned to embed these important changes and make sure that they make a real difference to children.

Every Child Matters sees a great expansion in teachers working with other childcare professionals. What is the evidence for success so far?

As far as hard evidence from research studies is concerned, it is early days for conclusive results. But studies of some of the first extended schools have found improvements in  children’s educational attainment and their attendance, motivation and behaviour. Smaller scale studies have shown a range of outcomes, including earlier assessment and response to children with additional needs, reductions in bullying, healthier lifestyles, and schools being better able to tap into the resources of their local communities. The key measure of success will be the extent to which a more integrated approach will narrow the gap between those who do well and those who do not.

What is the greatest challenge facing teachers now – and the greatest reward?

The evidence from the Primary Review suggests that one of the greatest challenges for teachers is creating a sense of stability and purpose within schools, supporting children’s wellbeing as well as their educational attainment, in the face of a changing and often worrying world. Although both parents and children told us that they saw primary schools as a haven, many children are under pressure within the school from testing, and outside from the loss of freedom due to fears about their safety, and from consumerism, new technology and pressures to grow up too soon. 

The greatest reward is the huge impact that good teachers have on the children they teach, and knowing the difference they can make to young lives. 

Of all the various roles you have held in and around education, which have you found the most rewarding?

Promoting the importance of high quality early years provision, in a variety of roles over many years. In 1985 I was appointed to set up an Under Fives Unit at the National Children’s Bureau (now called the Early Childhood Unit) to support the development of services for young children, a position I held for over ten years. There was virtually no nursery education at this point – indeed government ministers said there was no evidence that nursery education was worth investing in. In 1989 the government set up the Rumbold Committee, of which I was a member, to look at the educational experience of three and four year olds. This report still reads well, but was quietly forgotten by politicians. But not by those working in the field, and we continued to press for integrated services for young children and their families, providing early education and day care, and support for parents.

With the election of a Labour government in 1997, I became involved in setting up what were first called early excellence centres, and have now become children’s centres. I was also an adviser to government in establishing Sure Start local programmes, and then built on all of this work as we looked at how to improve outcomes for all children and young people through a more integrated and child centred approach – what is now the Every Child Matters agenda.

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